Wham! Radio 2 & The Sober Club: Janey Lee Grace Unfiltered

Janey Lee Grace

And our next guest is definitely in that category, and you can just see behind her, the Sober Club, and we're gonna talk in a bit about that. But welcome to the Crystal Water Experience Podcast, Janey Lee Grace. Oh, thank you for inviting me. It's great to see you. Thank you so much. I've been wanting to get you on the show for a while.

Y- your history, like where you've come from and where- Yeah ... you are now. And my dim and distant past. You've come on a massive journey. But- but the fact that you're so collaborative, you're so helpful. You don't see yourself on your own, that it's very important to support each other wherever we are- on whatever ladder that we're on. And that really struck me about you, and it's a beautiful part of you, Janey. But perhaps you can start a little bit, a- as- as much as the beginning as you'd like to go. Yeah. So a lot of people know me as as being a presenter on Steve Wright in the Afternoon.

So I was there at Radio 2 for, goodness me, 25 years. Crazy. Before that I was on Virgin Radio. So I've been in the media for absolutely years. Before that I was a singer. So I started my career as a, a backing singer, and I worked with Marie Wilson and Boy George, and famously with George Michael and Wham!.

So yeah, so I did all the Wham! tours including China. Amazing experience, and then I had my own top 10 hit. So I've definitely had my kind of rock and roll days. And then yeah, as I say, in, in radio for 25 years. And then really throughout that period of time- I was also becoming known for my holistic stuff.

Reason being that I wrote my first book exactly 20 years ago called Imperfectly Natural Women, and when that book first came out, it was literally my life's work, that book. I put my all into it. And I'd been on a real journey with uncovering everything holistic, apart from quitting alcohol, which we'll talk about later.

So it was a complete shock. It was like, wow, suddenly I had a whole new career, 'cause suddenly people wanted me to speak and they wanted me to endorse their products and suddenly it was literally as though I had a whole new career which I hadn't planned for, and I wasn't very good, to be perfectly honest.

I was... it was... I was very messy. I hadn't planned a business. I had no idea what to do. But I knew that the, the basis of it all was to try and shine a light on the good stuff in the holistic world. That was always my aim really. So I've been doing that ever since. My imperfectlynatural.com website is is still doing what it did 20 years ago, which is I don't sell anything.

Some of the brands are big. Some of the brands are one woman sitting in her kitchen and creating a cream that works for her kid's eczema because she can't find anything else, and I love being able to champion that stuff. And then along with that when I was doing all the radio interviews, I would sometimes find that we would have people come in on the show who were, Great at what they did, fantastic hypnotherapists springs to mind, but not necessarily very good at communicating what they did.

That's quite a lot. That's a long answer, isn't it? That's- But there's more. I could listen to your voice. You have a beautiful voice to listen to. And I can see why your career lasted so, so long, and how, what you've just said is very important. That there are incredible people and being part of that Platinum Awards, it was just...

reading through everybody's submission- ... and how you allowed people that had obviously so much passion, were just doing these incredible things, but weren't necessarily big yet- No, exactly. Yeah ... encouraging them. And the stories behind them, probably like your own, I'll probably ask you about why you are passionate about holistic health.

and- Yeah. Also just on that note, it- what's been really interesting for me looking back, and since the book is 20 years old, I've obviously been looking back at the book and looking back at what, what I- the stuff I wrote about back then. Interestingly, there are a few brands that have stayed the course.

I literally spoke about them in my first book incredibly. I often joke that I was ahead of my time, 'cause I was writing about coconut oil and kale before they hired- ... their own publicity team. That's my little line. And it's true. There was so much in that book that nobody else was talking about.

They've just become part of who, w- everyone understands. But then there are other things that really haven't come very far at all and this touches on the work you do. 'Cause one of the things I wrote about in depth in that first book, not that I had the answers, but I posed the questions, was around electromagnetic frequencies.

And of course, back then, this was 20 years ago, we weren't all glued to our phones in quite the same w- way we are now, but of course it was all starting. But I wrote about that in the first book. I wrote about the, the problems with being wired all the time. And now 20 years on not that much has changed really.

Green issues, we'd call it, environmental issues. And I'm grateful that even back then I didn't fall for any of the BS around that. I literally was looking at sustainability in the truest sense of the word. Of course, it's going to make sense to, to, make a dress out of your curtains if you're in, if you're into sound of music.

Or, it of course it makes sense to get stuff from vintage shops and reuse and recycle. Like, why would it not? Who wants a load of landfill? But I never got into that greenwashing thing, which as time has gone on, I've actually been shocked how much of that is going on. It's huge. Even now I'll get sent something from a company and they'll go, "Oh, we'd love you to promote this for us.

Of course, it should be recyclable, duh, obviously. But now let's open it up. Let's have a look at what's in it. Oh okay. So it's chock-full of synthetic chemicals that are gonna, at the very least, kill the fishes. Really, what... It's crazy. The greenwashing that's gone on over the years is scary.

Sorry, you just got me on a little rant there. No I love that rant. And it's very difficult, isn't it to pick through the difference between, what is green, Yeah, exactly ... what is sensible. Yeah. And the toxins thing are, I think are a huge issue, and it's just coming out in America now, isn't it?

Let's have a look at the ingredients. Simply asking that question. Yeah. And the rage, the absolute rage coming from ordinary people basically is ... And the brainwashing is horrific. Anyway, so- Yeah ... he got me onto this show and this, this guy who's a scientist, but his science is not in anything to do with animals or humans even.

It's to do with manufacturing technology for biotech, which is, means he's got, he doesn't know one end of a hamster from another, basically. And he's literally said, "It is crazy that people think that natural organic products are better than synthetic. This is simply grifting." You've got people, like, saying this, saying that organic natural food i- is grifting.

That's the good news. There's a g- really big number of people now, when compared to 20 years ago, I think, who are starting to get, to recognize that, what you put on your skin goes within. You are what you eat. All of these old cliches that are actually true. There are lots of people that are starting to get it.

However, there's a very strong pushback against that, because once that group of people get a bit loud, it's like, "Ugh, that's very annoying." It's like a wasp on their shoulder. Ugh. And so the divide is getting greater, and I am not sure there is a bridge. I don't think there is, but you know what?

You don't know what you don't know, as the expression goes. So it's those people that it would be fantastic to be able to reach. And that's the work that I do with the awareness around quitting alcohol as well, I didn't know what I didn't know. I believed all the BS. But now I know differently, so if there's anyone who is open, then let's encourage them, before they go down the rabbit hole of propaganda, which is what it is really.

It is propaganda, and by the way, guys, the show notes will have all the links that you need. But, you search The Platinum Awards, The Sober Club, and, you'll find Janey's work, and it is incredible. And in fact, I'm glad that you brought up the, the Sober Club now, and I wondered from your perspective, like what do you think is the biggest reason that people, even if they say, "Oh, I need to cut down," what do you think the reason is that they want to cut down, and also then why they don't go ahead and do it?

I was also a Hay House author, so I was interviewing just about every guru there was. Literally, conversation with Wayne Dyer and all of these people. So I had all this kind of, I was surrounded by this, if you like, expertise around natural living, holistic living, health and wellbeing, spirituality, and yet I was stepping around this huge elephant in the room that was alcohol.

Every now and then, you naughty girl, you can't hold your beer. That's embarrassing, but there's like everyone... It's so not true. It's a big spectrum. I call it the booze elevator, and actually, the reality is the majority of people who drink are somewhere on that booze elevator, but they don't yet realize that they can choose to get off.

They can choose to get off before they hit rock bottom, right? Because it's the done thing, 'cause it's what everyone does, we get used to it, becomes a habit. We start to rely on it because here's the thing- It's not that there's anything wrong with us. I spend my life telling clients this, because often when they come and work with me for one-to-one coaching, they'll be feeling this huge sense of shame and guilt around drinking too much.

It is not your fault. You became addicted to an addictive substance, 'cause that's what it is. It's an addictive substance, and there's nothing wrong with you. You don't have an addictive personality. You are not an alcoholic. You became addicted to an addictive substance. But if you can see that, and you can catch the light at the end of the tunnel, you get free from that trap.

And I think what goes wrong, to come back to your question, is that, look, I think people, many people do exactly what I did, and I went round the block, as I call it, for about 10 years of waking up at 3:00 a.m. thinking, "What the hell even is this? The ceiling's spinning. It's a Tuesday. What is going on?" And then a little voice would say to me, this is not okay.

You've had such a busy day." And it all starts again. And I think that's the pattern for so many people because it's so ingrained. It's the social glue that sticks everything together, isn't it? We can't have a wedding, a funeral, a play date, anything without alcohol. So when we decide to quit- We have to recognize, we are, we're going against the curve.

We are. We're- we're forming new neural pathways, and we're shining a light on people that do still drink. Not that we're n- judgmental in any way at all, but- but it does- does have an impact on other people, 'cause their behavior is then reflected, so then it becomes awkward. But for me, I my only regret is not doing it sooner.

That's a big old number. So those people need to be made aware that you can do this. Absolutely you can do this. Y- yeah, it takes a bit of work. Yeah, you have to push through. Yeah, you have to get connected. But- but absolutely you can do this. Whereas generally, society would have you believe we don't need to do anything; it's perfectly good.

I- you may have heard me say, 'cause I- I bang on about it all the time, but I rocked up to a GP when I was still drinking, going through my waking up at 3:00 AM stage, and I went to a GP. I never used to darken the door of a GP, but I went for a vitamin D test, right? That's another whole podcast, by the way.

You can't now. They say, "Book another appointment." But back in the day, I got to the door and I thought, "You know what? I'm gonna say it." So I turn around to her and I said, "Can- can I just ask you about something else? I'm- I'm actually wo- quite worried about my drinking." Oh, man. It took a lot for me to say that.

I had never said it out loud to anyone ever. It was huge for me to say it, right? And of course she just looked at me. She said you look fine. How much are you drinking?" So obviously I lied, and said couple of glasses a night." And she just went, "Ah. Ah. Same as me.

All good. And it kept me stuck for another five years, literally. And now I look back and I think, it's really clear to me, even now my expectation would not be that she should've been sober or told me to quit alcohol. No, not at all. She should've just said to me, "Well done you for noticing something that feels important to you, so it obviously is.

And why don't you check out one of the groups of..." If the Sober Club had been around. One of the groups of people who choose not to drink. That's all she needed to say, and it would've been a different course for me. Incredible. And that whole thing, I'm just imagining you in that scenario and for her to say that though, then she has to shine a light back on herself, right?

So then they'd go home and drink a bottle of wine. How is that meant to work? How? Medicating on top of me- medication on top of medication what- Yeah ... who would think that is gonna work? Who would think that is gonna pan out good? So- You've- That's going- ... you've really hit the nail on the head.

The problem with, I think, we've got in this country is people go to their GP about absolutely everything and expect them to be experts on everything. No, exactly, but they're general practitioners, aren't they? They're general practitioners. Yeah. They can't possibly... And this idea that we have to take personal responsibility for our own health, we have to invest in our own health- Yeah

Yeah ... osteopath appointment. And, but then they will be drinking wine. We, like- yeah. Yeah. For how ever many it is, four bottles of wine, you could've, booked your appointment and- Yeah ... and be going on. I really love what you was love what you're saying, and I am definitely seeing a huge change in people who, even if they do drink, want to drink less or want to quit, but don't quite know how to go around it.

Because y- you're right, you're you're a fish swimming upstream. Yeah. And I think this is where your coaching, So you now train trainers, and you're bringing people on all the time. I train coaches. Yeah. Yes. Train coaches. Yeah. Yeah. And this is so important because when I've thought about my own personal drinking, I drink way less now, and I am trying to completely quit.

So you need to find a healthy way to use- Absolutely ... this time that's good for you. No, it's true. One of the things I do with all my clients is I encourage them to come up with a list of resources and things they enjoy. When you're drinking, particularly if you're drinking a lot, your world can become really very small.

It really can. Because drinking takes so much time, it's unbelievable. Time planning to drink, buying it, actually drinking, recovering from drinking, being secretive about drinking. It's exhausting. And when you quit, you do have more time, for sure. The really amazing thing, and this, I've seen it time after time, is when people quit completely- It takes a little while, but then a new...

And if you'd asked me then about self-love and self-esteem, there wasn't anything I couldn't have told you. Trust me, I knew it all. But if you'd asked me about my personal experience, I'd have had to admit, "Oh, no, I d- I can't meditate myself. I can't do anything myself." Of course I couldn't, because I was pouring toxic liquid in every day.

And I really think there is a massive link between alcohol and, spirituality. I'm not trying to be judgmental here. It, I just, , I found this for myself. There is a completely different possibility for self-esteem and self-love when you're not poisoning yourself. And so what tends to happen is people, it can take a little while, but they step into this new version of themselves, the real version of themselves, by the way.

She's like, I don't even recognize this person." Another one saved enough money from not drinking to get a camper van and travel. It can be anything. But several people decide, "You know what? I'm gonna reinvent myself."

And that's why I do the training people to be sober coaches, 'cause often people go, "Yeah, I would like to give back." But you're absolutely right, you have more time on your hands, and it's really important to decide what feels good to to use that time for. So that is just an amazing opportunity then for people, to go through the process themselves, and then that can be, with all that extra time and energy- Yeah

I could work with someone who wants to improve their running time even though I can't, I don't run. That's just generic coaching skills and being able to inspire and facilitate someone else. But with alcohol, it's completely different. It's all of who you are. It really is. And what happens is we work with people in order to help them not just stop drinking.

It's not just... And I've always found, with alcohol, it's also the byproducts of the sugar. Yeah. There's a never-ending cycle, isn't it? The sugar's a big part of it. I think that quite often part of the addiction is the sugar. Yeah. But then that affects your skin, it affects your mood, it affects all this kind of stuff, and then you hate yourself, and then you need to switch it off.

Yeah. And people are like, "How can you go out and have a good time and not drink?" I'm like... But when you see everybody else's behavior, you're like- ... "My God, that was me?" Yeah. "I'm having a brilliant time now." Yeah. It's not boring without alcohol. No. That, that anagram sober equals bores, literally-

the opposite is true. Sober. It's drunk people who are really boring. Oh, God. They just say the same thing over and over again. But, I point a finger at myself 'cause that was me, I was that person. Yeah, it's hard-hitting, really, when you realize that's... and the other thing, it's quite interesting, 'cause it's everywhere in our culture, but it's also everywhere in the marketing.

It's crazy. Do you know, I've noticed that as well in books, and I was gonna say on television programs. And w- when you really notice it, you n- you think, "Oh, my gosh, it's literally in every scene." It is. It's- Un, un- unless, the, this is the thing that gets me, it's either in every scene, 100% normal, everyone drinks, it's set in a bar or it's there or it's completely normal, until they have a storyline where one of the characters is an alcoholic.

And when you watch that, the perception is, "Ah, thank God I'm not that bad." They've never once had a storyline where someone is unhappy with their regular drinking. We use this expression gray area drinkers. It's not black and white. It's somewhere on that spectrum. They never have a storyline where someone is doing what I used to do, drink pretty much every night, waking up at 3:00 a.m.

hating themselves. They don't have that storyline. They literally propagate this myth that there are two types of drinkers. There's everyone who drinks normally, perfectly okay, happy social drinkers. It's a dumb thing. It's what it is. And then there's this poor little group of addicts. Such nonsense.

Majority of people, I would say, don't want to drink and- Exactly ... want to have a life where they don't need to- Exactly ... basically and they realize something's going on. And it's great, isn't it, seeing Gen Z not- Oh, yeah ... turning to alcohol? It's- Yeah, totally. Yeah. They are much brighter than we were.

If you can choose a grown-up drink, I think it's really important because as adults, we do seek pleasure, don't we? We do want a dopamine hit. We do wanna sit by the fire, with a glass of something or sit by a lake or whatever the hell it is. It's what we do. And a cup of tea won't cut it 'cause your unconscious mind kind of goes I feel really deprived right n- right now."

And I always say to people, "You're never allowed to use the phrase give up because there is nothing to give up. You're only gaining." So my little mantra is keep the ritual, change the ingredients. So always have the ritual of a nice glass, but find something grown up and alcohol-free that you can have in it.

There is so, there's so much choice that isn't, you know, stuff that isn't full of sugar and absolute nonsense. Yeah, I think that's, that, that's brilliant. There's so many more choices now. And we, we need to learn from the Gen Z guys. And the sort of things they do, I'll t- I'll tell you, like my daughter, she was just coming up to 17.

Oh. And then they made a, an ornament or something like that on a theme. So that's what they did on New Year's Eve. They shared. They had a lot... They didn't drink. No. It's fantastic. And I never would have thought of doing that. Yeah. Yeah. This is normal, though. My daughter's like having picnics in the park and things like this.

Yeah, it's brilliant, isn't it? And I'm like, "I need to learn." Yeah. Thank goodness. It's so cute. Yeah. So l- let's say we had the Republic of Janey was introduced tomorrow. In terms of alcohol and how it's presented and all this kind of stuff, what sort of things would you introduce or remove or say w- wasn't possible in order to, you don't want to be, like, militant about it, right? But you want to present it- No ... in a fair way actually, and I don't think it's fair. Yeah, I'm not up for prohibition. That was, no, it's never gonna happen. But my... Here's the thing for me. I want it to be as normal to choose not to drink as to drink.

It why should it matter to anyone else what you're putting in your mouth? So I would like it to be literally literally as as straightforward as that. No discussion about it. Just loads of amazing grown-up alcohol-free drinks available. And in terms of- I never try and say to people, "You really should look at your drinking," or, absolutely not. It has to come from the person. But I would just give one challenge, one question really. The question to ask yourself is really straightforward. It's not, "Am I drinking too much? Have I got a problem?" The question is simply, "Could my life be better physically and emotionally without alcohol?"

And what frustrates me more than anything is when you get these people who are s- there's a few celebs who do this. I won't name them 'cause ... I won't name them. But there are a few celebs who they were alcoholics, so they perhaps were at rock bottom. These are their words, not mine.

I can't drink." What? How crazy is that? We're the lucky ones. You choose not to drink alcohol. You live your life without an addictive substance. You can choose the best version of you. We're the lucky ones, for sure But that, that's brilliant to say, and I love what you said right at the beginning.

We sh- we create our reality- Yeah ... and I think putting things out there is really important to try to do this on our show. And do you know what my dream is Janey? It's I really want a crystal water experience, like cafe bar, and- Nice. Yeah ... the way that I see it it would be on a high street, and the furniture and everything in there is gonna be coherent.

Great. All the food's or- organic. We know what's going on with the folic acid, so nothing alum- Oh, God, don't- ... bone fare ... don't get me started on that. No, no bone fare stuff, so for sure you know that it's gonna be amazing. All of it's grounded, like with all of our kind of frequency things. And then the idea would, 'cause it's like a social space, is there could also be back kind of treatment rooms where you can have those kind of holistic places.

So these become places people can pop in at their lunchtime, or they- Yeah ... can have a business meeting in there. Yeah. There'll be some journaling sessions. Journal sessions. Get people like- Yeah, love it ... and then in, and then we go to, this is just 'cause this is gonna happen then we go to a Hilton and say, "Look, instead of having your Starbucks, let's put-" Yeah

Yeah, I love that. And that's how we change, that's how we change things, I think. So your republic and my ambition- Yeah. I'll be there. I'll be there We'll see then. I'll come to your caf, for sure. Sounds great. So- So for you then you really, you had such a, a- an interesting life. And I haven't read all of your book, I've got to be honest, but I'm gonna get it now because I'm reading y- your memoir from Wham to Woo, which you've been sort of- From Wham to Woo.

Yeah ... focused, yeah. Yeah that talks about the kind of singing career and the radio days and everything else. Yeah. I just absolutely love the title. I was talking to Philly about it, and so I wanna get on- you know the double meaning of the title, don't you? So the, the...

So I thought, "How am I gonna do this?" So first of all I was playing around with the word woo. But I thought it doesn't flow very well, but if I just use the word woo, that flows quite well." Now, at exactly the same time as I was having this conversation by email with the publisher, I'd just done a personality test.

There are these things like Enneagram, Myers-Briggs. There's a few of them, aren't there? Where they determine your personality type or your personality traits. And I'd just done one called Clifton Strengths, which believe it or not is run by Gallup, as in Gallup poll. So somebody had invited me to do this test, Clifton Strengths, and the idea is that it discovers what your top five strengths are so that you can really build on them, right?

And I thought, "Perfect. I'll take that. That's what I spend my life doing," right? So it's literally a double meaning that works brilliantly. Oh, I did not know that. No. That's a fantastic story. And I've got to say, seeing your character in real life, Janey, you come across as somebody that's very powerful but you're very humble, and you've just got this magnetism about you.

Your skin and your, you just look health- Oh, that's not drinking ... That's- It's the best anti, it's the best anti-aging hack ever ... de-aging. I was, when I was still drinking, there was I'll always remember, people sometimes say to me, "Was there a moment?" And I don't think there was a moment, I think it went on for years actually, the misery of it all.

You hold your tummy in before you look. But on this occasion I just walk past a mirror. Oh, God, I got this awful shock. And I remember feeling unbelievably I don't know what the word is. It's almost fearful actually. Fearful of getting older. I actually f- I was actually scared. And I thought, "Who am I?

This is not very authentic writing this article 'cause I am terrified of getting older. I don't like anything about it. It scares me. I don't wanna look terrible. I don't wanna feel terrible. I don't wanna lose energy. I don't want ill health. I d-", everything with n- with negative thinking was incredible.

Really scared. And then I remember thinking, "What can I do? There must be something I can do. Maybe I can go and do a boot camp. Maybe I'll go and do another one of Jason Vale's juice retreats. Maybe I'll go vegan for a month. I'll do this, I'll do that." And then a little voice said, "We could quit alcohol."

But then I brushed past that one. And I look back to that moment, and I remember it really clearly because now I'm super excited about getting old. What's the alternative? What's the bloody alternative, right? Now I don't feel like that at all. I feel like I get... Every year gets better, every year.

So- No, and you. I love your stuff too. It's super exciting. It really is. Thank you. Love it. Thank you, darling. So are there any s- sort of last messages that you'll live you'll leave for the people listening to the podcast now? I think it's just this thing of go after your dreams, really. That's the kind of...

in From Wham to Woo, I at the end I write my 12 rules for life. Number one is never have a root canal, but we won't go there. Although it still is the number one. But there are several others culminating in go after your dreams. Life's too short not to go after your dreams. And if there's stuff that you know is holding you back, then get over that.

It's that ripple effect that I get excited about, that ripple effect that more and more people will start to realize there is another path. We can choose another way. Beautiful. I really echo those sentiments. And I usually I'm gonna say the same thing as I usually do as my closing comments.

I think it fits in with yours. You are important. Everyone listening to this is important. You, we might be looking around at what's going on in the world now, but unless you take care and put yourself first and love yourself first- Yeah ... then you won't be able to affect anything o- on the outside.

But actually, it comes back to just fi- trying to find a way to raise your vibration. When you do that, nothing can get you. Sorry, carry on. No. Thank you for bringing in on that. It is absolutely right. This world, we create this world, and it's all comes from the inside out. And if you haven't been on this journey, love, I know it sounds crazy, but it is actually how it works.

So loving yourself enough to do this kind of thing, I'd really encourage you guys to do that because I love you and care about you too. So thank you so much, Janey, for bringing your- Thank you ... your wisdom and going on your journey. 'Cause if you hadn't gone on your journey, you wouldn't be able to share that with us today.

So massive thanks to you for everything you're doing, and thank you to everybody for listening to Crystal Water Experience Podcast where I bring on subject matter experts and people who've been on real-life journeys to share with you perhaps non-mainstream information that you probably should know.